transcript contains errors; be kind
My friend Sara was riding her bike in her neighborhood one Sunday afternoon in California when all of sudden she was on the ground. She thinks she slid on some dirt that made her bike go sideways. She was wearing a helmet and wasn’t going very fast but she felt beat up pretty badly. Gashes on her knee and elbow, a cut along her leg where the pedal must have scraped her. As she stood up trying to collect herself, a driver passing by pulled over and got out to make sure she was ok. She ran over to her and said, “hi, I saw that. Are you ok?” Sara fell into a puddle of tears. She told me later there was something about what the woman said and the way she said it—I saw that. The fall wasn’t even that bad but it has shook her and To feel seen, acknowledged, noticed in that vulnerable moment, she didn’t know it, but it was just what she needed.
This podcast is for Sara
It’s for anyone who’s ever wondered what to say in a crucial moment
It’s for artists looking to get better at giving and receiving words
This show is for anyone looking to debunk that “tortured artist” stereotype, for those who want to believe that the creative life can bring us deep satisfaction, healing, and even joy. I’m so glad you’re here.
I’m Merideth Hite Estevez, and this is Artists for joy the podcast
SHORT MUSIC BREAK
each week I will share stories of artists seeking joy… We’ll explore how so many travelers along this the artist’s way have left us bread crumbs—wisdom and inspiration that can help us stay joyful on the journey.
Today on the podcast, the very first episode of season 3–I’m calling it…how to talk to creative people. I’m going to share what I’ve been learning from chatting with artists of all disciplines on social media and in my coaching practice, specifically about how to talk to creators about their work—what comments feels good and why. Plus I’ll tell you the number one thing I believe creatives long to hear in their most vulnerable moments. Hoping this will help you get better at asking for what you need from friends and family and I hope you’ll send this one to that non artist friend too, if they ever wonder what to say when you show them your latest work. I’ll answer a listener question about time and I’ll give you something to consider this week, but first here’s some more music.
There’s this receiving line that forms after you play a recital. At least in music school there always was. My friends and I used to joke that the worst thing someone could say when they walk up to you in that line was “omg you looked so beautiful in your dress.” In other words completely avoiding saying anything about the music you’d spent a semester learning and the last hour of everyone’s lives performing. If an oboe recital of mine went well, the receiving line was a delight. I loved hearing what people thought about the music I’d selected and of course I loved hearing if or how they had enjoyed it. But if the performance was not my best, I wanted to make like the witch in the wizard of oz and melt away into the floor, never to be seen or heard from again.
There are all these things we have to deal with as artists, especially as a performing or exhibiting artists, you not only have to think or worry about executing the creativity but then you have to manage your feelings about that and your feelings about other people's feelings about it. I remember one of my teachers once teaching us how to receive a compliment. To say thank you so much for coming, and if a listener said something to you that you disagreed with like “you sounded beautiful.” We were taught to be gracious and say thankful and not spend time discounting or invalidating the experience of the listener.
So Here are 5 tips for how to talk to artists about their work, some from my own experience as a musician and writer, some I put together from questions on social media.
No 1. Say something, even if you aren’t sure what to say and how to say it. Maybe a performance or piece of work makes you speechless. Maybe you were not moved or impressed by your nieces dance recital that your sister dragged you to. But here’s the thing…When you are standing face to face with someone who has just shared a piece of their creative heart, you say something. One thing I do with my daughter who is 4.5 when she says look mama and holds up a finger painting—I say, wow, I really liked the creative choices you made and then I point out what I see she said. Or I’ll say I so enjoy watching you working on your art. There’s something true you can say. So Send the text. Shake the hand. Stand in the receding line. Don’t avoid, just say something.
No. 2. Be personal and specific. When I asked on social media, what are those compliments you’ll never forget, the responses artists held most dear were often deeply unique and personal. One oboist told a story of when someone who came up to them after an orchestra concert and said “I lost a dear friend this year. It’s been hard to leave the house. I’m so glad I came tonight, your music was what I needed.” When you say things like, I was so moved by your work. You take the ownness off the artists and you claim your own experience around it. It makes it easier to not argue about the nice things you may be saying because it’s your own experience.
When you say “great job” or “nice work” of course those are lovely to hear, but a specific compliment like “I thought the slow movement was exquisite” or “your rhythm in the finale was impeccable” goes a long way. Or even if you know nothing about music lingo say, I loved watching you play the second piece. Someone said on the social media post that once someone gave a composer a play by play of one of his pieces and shared specifics about what they thought made it great. He said he always remembered that because he felt the listener really “got” what he was trying to do. So don’t be afraid to share your unique experience as a listener or viewer.
No. 3. Do not offer critical feedback unless the creator specifically asks for it. Here’s something I think creatives need to be more guarded about, who gives feedback, when, in what format, to what end? If you are standing in that recital receiving line and feel tempted to just add two cents about how just trying this or that could help intonation or such and such. No. Don’t do that. You maybe think that’s helpful. But it is not. If an artist wants to know how you think they can improve, they will ask you. And if you’re an artist don’t forget that you don’t have to take everyone’s feedback in. You should choose who’s opinion you do hear because too many voices may hurt your progress or get you stuck!
No. 4. Recognize the hard work AND talent—one thing people said over and over was how they were bugged when people called them talented. This one doesn’t bug me so much, but I can understand why others find it annoying. We so often are worried that there is something we are lacking, like there was some gene we needed to be good enough and we don’t have it. And so when people say we are talented we instantly wonder, well, am I talented enough? Or what, you don’t think this is hard work?? You think I’m riding on some sort of God given gift instead of blood sweat and tears. Instead try noticing the hard work by saying things like, wow I bet that look so much practice to learn. Or you have worked so hard in preparing this, and it shows. Truth is talent is just one small piece to the puzzle and it feels so good to have the hard work recognized too.
No. 5. remember my friend Sara who fell off of her bike? With the bystander who stopped and said “I saw that. Are you ok?” When she told me that story, I knew why she was so moved by her words. Because we all want someone to see us. I talk to so many creators who worry about being misunderstood or missed. And let’s be real, sometimes putting your creative work out into the world can feel like falling off of a bike and scraping your knee on a busy street. It can feel like framing your open wound of a heart and putting it on a gallery wall. I think what so many of us want most in the world is for someone to see us, to ask us if we are ok, in failure and success, to recognize that what we do can be hard and scary, and that the scary part doesn’t end when the performance is over or the creating part is finished. We care about how the world perceives us, of course we do. I’d go so far as to say that anyone who says otherwise is lying. So the last tip ok how to talk to artists is to say things that confirm that they are seen and heard. Ask them good questions about how the experience felt, about how they’re doing, that’s what I think so many of us want to hear.
So say something, be personal and specific, recognize hard work and talent and most of all see us, ask us if we are ok. We love creating, its our calling and part of that is sharing our work with others. Thank you for for the ways you love and support creative people with your encouragement and presence. Allow me to speak on their behalf and say thank you for showing up for us, for trying to talk to us even when we aren’t great at accepting compliments or when we don’t respond to your message or disappear backstage after a show. You are one of the reasons we do what we do, and so even when We can’t respond like we should, we are grateful.
My fellow creators, the first step at feeling more at ease when people talk about your work is to stop equating your reception with your worthiness. Don’t give people who have not earned your respect that much power. Find a small group of friends or a trusted mentor or teacher who can share what they see and hear in your work. And allow everyone else to enjoy watching hearing or seeing you doing your thing. Their response to your work is frankly none of your business, honestly it prob has very little to do with you. And if they share words with you, thank them for being there. Take the meaningful words and hold them close. Give them grace when they put their foot in their mouth. Don’t argue with them when they say you’re talented. It doesn’t mean you also didn’t work hard. Release whatever isn’t helpful. Stand up, dust yourself off and get back on the bike when you’re ready. I saw that. Are you ok?
I’ll be right back.
This is the portion of the show where I answer a listener question. Todays came from a listener via email—Merideth, I am always listening each and every week and I’d love if you’d share something about time management. I have so many fun joyful creative interests and ideas and when I have time to creative I then find myself feeling overwhelmed because I don’t know where to start or what to do first. Any tips? Thanks overwhelmed in Ohio
Hi there thank you so much for that question! I actually was on a coaching call recently with someone talking through this exact issue. Goals are no problem, ideas are no problem, you’ve got an abundance of those and that’s great. But when the rubber hits the road you aren’t making progress for lots of reasons. So, I can go into this way more if we did a one on one, but for the purposes of this podcast I’ve got one simple tip for you. When you are done with a project for the day, grab a post it, and put two or 3 bullets about what is next for that particular thing so when the next time you return to it you can feel like you’re starting more in the middle of a task instead of at a blank page or cursor. So say your writing a novel and you’re finishing up for the day…before you stop, pick a couple of bullets about what comes next. Need to finish love scene, dialogue for fight scene. If it’s a painting—need to go back and blend this or that, if it’s music—need to focus on sixteenth note passage at letter B. It will allow you to stay in the moment and not get stuck and overwhelmed before you start. And then plan your week or your day around the bullets of each thing. So you don’t have big swaths of times on your calendar for painting or writing, it is specific measurable goals that you can drop in and drop out as time allows. And make sure you plan some time to play too. With no agenda. It doesn’t have to all be productive! Balance the deep focus work with more playful, exploring time, don’t feel bad about using your creative time to be playful, that’s part of it. Let me know if that helps.
If you have a question to submit to the show you can do so by clicking the link in the show notes.
Now for todays coda (if you’re new here, this is the extra added part at the end to close us out)
Prions are birds that filter seawater through their mouths to catch tiny fish and crustaceans. If you’ve ever heard of the whales that do this, it’s similar and that’s why the prions have the nickname whale bird. The side of their bills look like little combs, and they use them to trap food as the water flows through.
So my question for you today is this—what kind of filter do your words flow through? In all honesty, everyone speaks from their own place of experience, point of view, and even baggage. This fact is useful for us as we may take offense to others comments about our work, but it is also important for us to consider our filter when we are speaking to others. For me, I try to use the ole golden rule, due unto others as I would have them do unto me. And that means running everything I say through the filter of—would this be something I would want someone to say to me? And the filter goes both ways, doesn’t it? Just like the comb jaws of the prions filter what comes out, it also filters what goes in. So what guards are in place for other’s words on your heart, your creative impulse, your confidence? How much are you letting the words of others affect you, or even better question, whose words are you letting through that filter of yours or are you just guzzling down everything that comes your way? You get to decide whose opinions, feedback, or words you take to heart. I have a post it on my desk that says “it is not sustainable to take everything personally.” The whale birds know what there food is and what isn’t. Are you ingesting hurtful comments, language, or negativity from others or yourself? It may mean the difference between keeping going and giving up. How do you talk to creative people? The same way you catch krill, with a filter…here’s to filtering out all that isn’t useful, loving or gracious.
That’s it for today’s episode of artist’s for joy. It was written and produced by me, meredith hite estevez. Today’s music featured our brand new season 3 theme song, always by our resident composer, Angela Sheik. lol three of the theme songs we’ve had on the show have been by Angela. Angela’s music is streamable on all the platforms and you can check out her videos on youtube @angela sheik or by clicking the link in the show notes.
Today we also featured music of one of our very own listeners, kirsten Edkins. You can listen more to kirsten by clicking the link in the show notes.
I learned about pirons from an awesome account on facebook called “random facts with Matt” his facts are delightful and timely and so he’s a good follow if you don’t already follow him.
So many exciting things come for season 3. Today’s episode was the first of the how to’s of this season—I got some feedback that listeners love practical how tos that they can take away and put into action. So this week we were focusing on how to talk to artists and next week we will have a follow up musical meditation with a couple of creative coaching prompts and exercises for you to take and practice.
Speaking of feedback, I have created a google form with just a few questions…if you listen to this podcast, please could you take a moment and fill that out. It will allow you to share your input for future episodes and also if you are a musician who has original compositions or public domain recordings that you’d like to have featured on the show, it will give me the opportunity to get to know you and contact you to potentially feature you as a musical artist for the show. That survey is in the show notes, thank you immensely for telling me about you, what you like and don’t like, and your hopes and dreams for this podcast! We are looking to expand and get some advertisers and so getting to know you listeners helps me get ads that will actually interest you!
That’s all for now friends, I will be back next week with a bonus episode for you, and and full episode week after next, until then, take good care.
Today’s sounds of joy is a little clip from a song writing season of my husband who is constantly asking me to grab my phone to record his song ideas. If I could have even half of the joy he has for music then i’d be set. So here is the prolific recording artist, Rev edwin estevez, here is his latest master work enjoy